Geni Forum » General Discussion
Documents
(27 posts)-
Geni Team
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Documents are obviously important when researching your family tree. Primary documents are the best sources for information about your relatives, and act as great sources when comparing information with others.
So what would you like to see in a documents feature on Geni?
- What formats should we support? (PDF, etc.)
- How should it integrate with other features?
- Where should it live on the site?
- What features should it have?
- What else?
Let us know in your comments below.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Hi Noah,
I'm so happy that you are going to address this. In the past, I tried uploading documents into a separate album, wanting to share the information with other family members. When I uploaded it as a .jpg and put it into a Document Album, I was the only one who could see the album. I'm not sure why that is but maybe that is something that could be addressed.
The documents I have are death certificates from my third great grandparents and down from there. When I've tried uploading a file, whether it was a .pdf or a .jpg, it asks who is this and if you put in your relatives name, it shows up as their portrait in their node. This of course doesn't look right.
I guess what would probably work the best is if you go into an ancestor's profile, you could have a section that would contain any pertinent documents for that person but that it wouldn't also become their profile picture. It should also be connected to an event such as birth, marriage, death etc.
I also have documents from my parents, such as their marriage cerificate, citizenship papers and my father's army papers from WWII. It would be great to be able to have these documents in their files.
I'm sure there are many others here who will have much more to contribute but I look forward to see how it will evolve.
Thanks to the Geni Team for all their hard work in making the tree what it is today. When I started my tree in April of 2007, I never dreamed I would have over 3,000 people on my tree. There are many family members who are very active on the tree and it has closed the gap between the ocean. The majority of my family are in Spain and they have enjoyed it as well (they just wish it was in Spanish as well).
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Excellent idea.
What should we support: This is an easy question. pdf, word, google docs, and e-book formats;
How should it integrate with other features/where should it live: It should live where discussions live - everyone in the family would be able to view the documents. Perhaps you could include permissions - perhaps you can set it that only "close family" can see it, or the extended family can see it (+ edit it, if that makes sense). Right now we are trying to simulate this feature using links on profile pages or in discussions, but that is cumbersome.
What features should it have: Control of who can view it. This will be like a family depository of documents, so it could be extended to photos, albums, links etc. May need a search feature.
You could also offer profession printing of documents for a price generating revenue for geni. For example, we have several books written by our relatives that are particular interest to the family and can use print on demand kind of solution.Posted 2 weeks ago # -
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I think you should avoid proprietary formats such as MS-Word or such. They change too often within themselves to be of any long term usage, and require proprietary tools. So you are best off sticking with PDF and possibly TIFF, of course you might want to enable standard graphic file formats, for people who have scanned their documents, and want to save as a document instead of the current photo.
As to "where" and "how" I think a similar arrangement to photos is best. Both completely independent of ANY profile, but easily tied to one or more. Like photos, they should have the same basic fields title, description, etc. and we need to be able to leave comments.
The only special "features" I think are needed, are some dedicated description fields, such as source (with optional URL), and possibly fields to "grade" the document as to relevance, quality and such. But then you run into issues where people disagree about these values, so maybe they need some sort of Permissions.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
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Support how images are currently used to provide this functionality with scanned images of birth certificates and such. That means that the main image formats should be supported. Generally, such primary sources are received in paper forms, so scanned sources with citation information is the main importance. I don't think I've ever seen a PDF of one of those documents unless it is just a PDF of a scanned image.
Support OCR of the images so that the text can be searched to some degree. Perhaps provide a flow where the image is uploaded and OCR'd and people can modify the OCR'd text to correct and improve it.
A source document should be able to be attached to one or more items... people, events, and maybe locations.
There should be an ability to combine sources. Let's say Bob is cited using Alice's copy of Bob's birth certificate. Let's say Bob2 is cited using Alice2's copy of Bob's birth certificate. Bob and Bob2 are merged. The source for both is the same though previously stored separately so they should be mergable.
A source should have a discussion about its credibility and legitimacy. Perhaps in the case of images of paper sources an opportunity for people vouching that the image does represent the original paper source to account for digital forgery and such.
Some image formats and PDFs and Word documents support digital signatures as well. That should be supported as well indicating that it is a digitally signed source as well as who signed it.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
This could be as simple as just duplicating the functionality of the existing photos section and calling it 'Documents'.
This would then appear as a section on the profile, event pages and so on.
We would just need to have the ability to specify whether a particular image or album is a 'photo' or a 'document'. I've already uploaded all my documents as 'photos' so it would be good to be able to change these over without having to re-upload them.
It would also be nice to have an extra thumbail on the event list to indicate that a document had been attached to the event.
I think the issue of sources is a different (and bigger) issue, so it would be wise not to get too bogged down trying to solve that one at the same time.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Posted 2 weeks ago #
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It's pretty much the same as when you asked a year ago (in 2008):
http://forum.geni.com/topic.php?id=14441All existing common standard image/text files (jpg, tiff, pdf, txt, rtf). As shmuelakam says, nothing proprietary.
Uploaded pdf, txt and rtf files should be searchable/indexed by the Geni machine. As I may have said once or twice, I also believe photos should be searchable/indexed by the Geni machine (standard iptc tags).
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
I also suggest keeping it on the simple side. Simply renaming "Photos" to "Photos and Documents" or even "Files" would suffice. It is hard to envision functionality beyond what the photos have without knowing the plan for sources. I might have a source that is "1900 U.S. Federal Census" and several PDF files that represent specific instances of that source.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
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Support how images are currently used to provide this functionality with scanned images of birth certificates and such. That means that the main image formats should be supported. Generally, such primary sources are received in paper forms, so scanned sources with citation information is the main importance. I don't think I've ever seen a PDF of one of those documents unless it is just a PDF of a scanned image.
I have purchased such documents in PDF format from the Registro Civil de Chile (US$1.50 ea.! If only the UK's GRO were equally non-avaricious).
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
I'm gonna have to disagree about the proprietary thing, on the basis that most people I know have no clue what a proprietary format is and if they have a word doc and can't upload it, they'll probably be more inclined to do nothing and give up than even ask for help.
Nobody's going to upload some obscure format. The worst you're going to get is MS Word and anybody who can't open MS Word isn't trying hard enough. I would rather my grandma uploads MS Word than nothing. If worse comes to worst, download grandma's file, convert it to PDF, and re-upload. Then ask if you can delete hers, if you don't have permission.
As for what I'd like, I'd like to have documents directly related to events. e.g. upload a census and create a census event for everyone. But all my wants for documents are pretty much a want for sourcing.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Matt took the words right from my mouth (fingers): " But all my wants for documents are pretty much a want for sourcing."
It is very important that whatever method is utilised (I would favour flexibility and choice) is easily legible and accessable as a link to a list of sources on each profile as well as linked to events and places.Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Geni Team
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Thanks for the great feedback everyone. Sounds like we are on the right track so far, and we'll be incorporating some of your suggestions. I agree completely with what Cesarowicz said - right now we are talking only about documents. Sources is a separate discussion that we will soon be having, but let's focus specifically on a stand along documents feature right now. When we do sources, documents will be on of the types of media that you will be able to use as a source.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Documents are, by definition, sources. What you're talking about is half-implementing sources. You're talking about having the document there but not a way to properly attach it with a source citation. I think that's silly.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Yeah, I tend to agree with Sarolite. I can't even think of a document I want to add that isn't a source for something. I don't really want to upload all my documents and then go all the way back through them again when sources come out.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Geni Team
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We're building documents first, then sources (citations, really) to connect documents to profile data. Some users may prefer to wait for both features to be completed before uploading documents, but I wouldn't make that an excuse for not contributing your ideas when Noah asks for them.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
<p>We're building documents first, then sources (citations, really) to connect documents to profile data. Some users may prefer to wait for both features to be completed before uploading documents, but I wouldn't make that an excuse for not contributing your ideas when Noah asks for them.
</p>Well, the question was what would I like to see in a documents feature, and my answer (in case it wasn't clear in my previous post) is that I would like to add the documents as a source citation.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
<p>Nobody's going to upload some obscure format. The worst you're going to get is MS Word and anybody who can't open MS Word isn't trying hard enough. I would rather my grandma uploads MS Word than nothing. If worse comes to worst, download grandma's file, convert it to PDF, and re-upload. Then ask if you can delete hers, if you don't have permission.</p>
That may be true with 2003 (.doc) but .docx is different. Perhaps anything uploaded in Word formats could be converted to pdf at Geni's end before being made available?
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
<p><p>We're building documents first, then sources (citations, really) to connect documents to profile data. Some users may prefer to wait for both features to be completed before uploading documents, but I wouldn't make that an excuse for not contributing your ideas when Noah asks for them.
</p>
</p><p>Well, the question was what would I like to see in a documents feature, and my answer (in case it wasn't clear in my previous post) is that I would like to add the documents as a source citation.
</p>Me too!!!
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Even if you're not addressing the Sources issues in full yet, here are some points:
* Create Documents as part of Photos, same platform
* Rename to "Photos and Documents" as suggested by cdub1900
* Allow a wide range of formats
* Allow each document or Photo to be linked to:
** several people/profiles (like today)
** several events (difficult today)
* Each album or folder should have separate privacy settings - important to make this workThe events section can easily be used as a form of linking source to proper data input. I have an example here, a relative of mine (set as Shared so should be visible to most of you)
http://www.geni.com/people/Synn%C3%B8ve-Vaage/6000000003205021904As you'll see I've uploaded scans of original documents from church registers, to verify dates for births and marriages. Her timeline shows that there are "photos" added - but really these are documents, jpg format.
Posted 2 weeks ago #
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